Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby BeeBoi1980 » 14 Aug 2019, 12:17

LoringBee wrote:Deeply, deeply frustrating. I actually thought we played quite well against a solid Dover side for 70 minutes, moving the ball well and getting into some good areas, including creating some decent chances.

As others have said, though, this was the game where it became abundantly clear that we do not have a proper centre forward to get on the end of the crosses being put into the box. I'm sorry but it is pathetic, frankly, that we have gone more than a year without a Conference-standard centre forward. Money cannot be an excuse - we've lost more players than we signed (including presumably big-earners like Tarpey, Cousins and Robson) and made a lot of cash from last season's FA Cup run. Currie has made clear that the issue isn't identifying players but landing them, which suggests it is about money. I suspect that this is another example of Kleanthous' penny-pinching costing us dearly but, whatever the reason, he owes supporters an explanation for what is an inexcusable failure to sign a player in the position that has been the top priority for months on end.

What was perhaps most disappointing tonight was the way the players seemed to just settle for a draw and stop fighting after about 75 minutes, rather than pushing hard until the end in search of a winner. We let Dover back into the game so much that it was easy to see them nicking it at the end, and so it proved.

As others have said, Currie's substitutions weakened us, although I don't think they were necessarily the wrong ones at the time. What I don't understand is why he waited until our best period of the game to change things, killing the momentum we had built up. IMO Darren is sometimes too reluctant to change the system and the shape rather than simply the personnel. Tonight, for example, I would've liked to see us go two up top and in general I'm still not convinced 4-2-3-1 is the best formation for this group, given we haven't got a proper centre forward and our wingers aren't good enough at getting balls into the box. A pairing of Coulthirst and Akinola would cause problems for defences but playing just one of them up top is not going to bother centre backs as much as it should. Despite their best efforts (and I was impressed with Simeon again), that was clear tonight.

On the topic of wingers, I thought EMC had a poor game tonight. He shows some good touches and trickery but the end product isn't there. It isn't enough for a winger to put in one cross per game, and he also pulls out of too many tackles and headers for my liking (possibly as a result of carrying a knock). He's got bags of talent and is a hugely exciting prospect but I'm not sure he should be a regular starter at the moment, although I accept we haven't really got anyone else until Mauro is fit...

Overall I'm still impressed with how Currie has got this team playing and think there are a lot of positives compared to much of last season. If Kleanthous provides the money for a proper centre forwarded then I think it could be a decent season. Hopefully we'll learn from tonight and respond in the right way on Saturday.


Bang on the money
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby rudebwoyben » 14 Aug 2019, 12:29

barnetpete wrote:
StephenM wrote:
Would have been so much more effective to keep the ball on the deck and try passing it.



Did you not hear all the groans and 'forward' shouts when we kept the ball and tried to play it on the deck? DC can't win!


The eternal cry of ‘Forward!’
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby Norfolkbee » 14 Aug 2019, 12:54

rudebwoyben wrote:
barnetpete wrote:
StephenM wrote:
Would have been so much more effective to keep the ball on the deck and try passing it.



Did you not hear all the groans and 'forward' shouts when we kept the ball and tried to play it on the deck? DC can't win!


The eternal cry of ‘Forward!’

There's little point in playing the ball "forward" without a "forward" to win it. Maybe those crying "forward" were just urging TK to put his hand in his pocket and bring in a "forward".
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby BeeBoi1980 » 14 Aug 2019, 13:11

Just remembered something from last night.

Half time, Legends bar, I ordered 1 Heineken, 2 Moretti and a bottle of Sprite.

I was served by 5 different people, one taking the payment, one who got the Sprite, and three people pouring a pint each.

I'll refrain from saying one person could have done it quicker. Ooops, I said it.
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby lemming3k » 14 Aug 2019, 13:25

barnetpete wrote:
StephenM wrote:
Would have been so much more effective to keep the ball on the deck and try passing it.



Did you not hear all the groans and 'forward' shouts when we kept the ball and tried to play it on the deck? DC can't win!


To be fair to those people there's a difference between passing it forward with attacking intent, and hoofing it to a short-arse. Unfortunately Dover pressed hard in the first half and the lack of movement meant no forward options so we went back, invited more pressure, and nearly gifted them a couple of goals in the process.
To be honest I think the goal was a gift as despite Loach's very good save (the ball dipped and swerved a lot with good pace so parrying it into the air was the best option), the defence switched off for the rebound. It struck me as a typically lethargic 4th game in 11 days.

It was hardly the death knell of our season in mid August, we looked plenty good enough in the first 3 games to be near the top, but there's no mistaking that was 3 points dropped and there are things to work on.
A big man up front is only going to help if we continue to play the long ball, otherwise we need to keep the movement and intensity to make lower passes available and work it forward - perhaps the squad needed a bit more rotation.
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby Norfolkbee » 14 Aug 2019, 13:35

lemming3k wrote:
barnetpete wrote:
StephenM wrote:
Would have been so much more effective to keep the ball on the deck and try passing it.



Did you not hear all the groans and 'forward' shouts when we kept the ball and tried to play it on the deck? DC can't win!


To be fair to those people there's a difference between passing it forward with attacking intent, and hoofing it to a short-arse. Unfortunately Dover pressed hard in the first half and the lack of movement meant no forward options so we went back, invited more pressure, and nearly gifted them a couple of goals in the process.
To be honest I think the goal was a gift as despite Loach's very good save (the ball dipped and swerved a lot with good pace so parrying it into the air was the best option), the defence switched off for the rebound. It struck me as a typically lethargic 4th game in 11 days.

It was hardly the death knell of our season in mid August, we looked plenty good enough in the first 3 games to be near the top, but there's no mistaking that was 3 points dropped and there are things to work on.
A big man up front is only going to help if we continue to play the long ball, otherwise we need to keep the movement and intensity to make lower passes available and work it forward - perhaps the squad needed a bit more rotation.

Surely, a big man upfront would be there to hold the ball up and bring the others into play. I watched a bit of Salford City v Leeds this morning and they have two big forwards doing the job. All right Salford were ultimately well beaten, but these two players were quite a handful for the Leeds defence and gave the keeper kittens at times.
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby tpBEE » 14 Aug 2019, 13:45

Dover set up with 2 banks and needed to be picked apart by either quick passing or committing a player by taking them on down the wings. Neither happened often enough.

The cries of forward are not to say hoof it forward but look to feet to one of the attacking players rather than playing the safe option back to reynolds or santos to then hoof it forward.

I have to say I was incredibly disappointed with J Taylor. It is so frustrating to watch someone of that obvious quality NOT demand the ball all the time. He should have been the one picking the ball up between the lines of Dover's banks and creating something but was so so so slow to move and looked like he didn't want it.

Positives, I thought Alexander was good when he got forward and Akinola battled hard and looked up for it. Santos and Reynolds looked solid at the back but too many times misplaced passes (though all did this at some point).

It won't define our season but DC needs to learn from this
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby beesknees99 » 14 Aug 2019, 13:50

lemming3k wrote:
barnetpete wrote:
StephenM wrote:
Would have been so much more effective to keep the ball on the deck and try passing it.



Did you not hear all the groans and 'forward' shouts when we kept the ball and tried to play it on the deck? DC can't win!


To be fair to those people there's a difference between passing it forward with attacking intent, and hoofing it to a short-arse. Unfortunately Dover pressed hard in the first half and the lack of movement meant no forward options so we went back, invited more pressure, and nearly gifted them a couple of goals in the process.
To be honest I think the goal was a gift as despite Loach's very good save (the ball dipped and swerved a lot with good pace so parrying it into the air was the best option), the defence switched off for the rebound. It struck me as a typically lethargic 4th game in 11 days.

It was hardly the death knell of our season in mid August, we looked plenty good enough in the first 3 games to be near the top, but there's no mistaking that was 3 points dropped and there are things to work on.
A big man up front is only going to help if we continue to play the long ball, otherwise we need to keep the movement and intensity to make lower passes available and work it forward - perhaps the squad needed a bit more rotation.


The cries of ‘FORWARDS!’ were in response to us mucking about with it at the back, with Reynolds (who had a very poor game), or H Taylor giving it to Loach, who decided not to clear it, but keep playing it in and around our box. We almost conceded twice because of this.

It was also because our passing was so slow, Elito I thought in particular looked particularly lethargic, but nobody drove at the Dover defence. It was all purposeless passing trying to walk it in, and ultimately trying to force it, then we’d lose possession.

The formation didn’t work last night, one up top just doesn’t suit the personnel we have. Go with two up top, and play it to feet. What’s wrong with a good old fashioned 4-4-2?

I’d also give Barham a chance, even if it’s off the bench. Or even Bettamer in that second striker role, even if it’s just to hold the ball up - he’s a big lad, and he’s already here!

I’d even like to see Vasillou get some game time - a tricky player, with a number of good assists in pre season.
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby let_it_bee » 14 Aug 2019, 17:54

I'm not too disheartened. We certainly deserved a point from that game and could have won it with those second half chances. Dover's work rate was hugely impressive - they all played with the same spirit that Hessentaler showed in his playing days, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them in contention for the play-offs. The left back caught the eye in particular, making it a tough night for EMC, though I don't think he played badly, just didn't see enough of the ball, particularly in the first half.
I think our passing and movement has improved significantly from last season, but of course we still need to move the ball quicker. But when the you think where we were at this stage last season, well, we've come a long way and I'm optimistic for the season to come.
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby LoudmouthBFC » 14 Aug 2019, 22:43

Barnet F.C. 0 v Dover Athletic F.C. 1 | Nein Nein Nein | GAMEDAY! Vlog (13/08/19)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTBF44uDuRw
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby LoudmouthBFC » 14 Aug 2019, 23:05

Barnet F.C. 0 v Dover Athletic F.C. 1 | Nein Nein Nein | GAMEDAY! Vlog (13/08/19)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTBF44uDuRw
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby lemming3k » 15 Aug 2019, 15:29

Norfolkbee wrote:Surely, a big man upfront would be there to hold the ball up and bring the others into play. I watched a bit of Salford City v Leeds this morning and they have two big forwards doing the job. All right Salford were ultimately well beaten, but these two players were quite a handful for the Leeds defence and gave the keeper kittens at times.

Indeed a taller player can contribute more than just winning headers, but there's a propensity once you have that type of player to just 'lump it up to the big man'. We've always been bloody awful at the long ball game, and had taller players who either couldn't win a header, or couldn't hold the ball up.
Hold up players need strength more than height if you keep it into feet - someone like Shaq does a good job holding the ball or drawing a foul, and is probably a lot more profitable against tall defenders who will mop up aerial balls all day long. We might need a second option for that as I wouldn't ask Akinola or Barham to play that way, but I wouldn't worry about the height so much as people seem to. Keep it on the ground to suit our style. You know if a big player comes in they'll only moan about the ball going up in the air all the time anyway!

beesknees99 wrote:
The cries of ‘FORWARDS!’ were in response to us mucking about with it at the back, with Reynolds (who had a very poor game), or H Taylor giving it to Loach, who decided not to clear it, but keep playing it in and around our box. We almost conceded twice because of this.

It was also because our passing was so slow, Elito I thought in particular looked particularly lethargic, but nobody drove at the Dover defence. It was all purposeless passing trying to walk it in, and ultimately trying to force it, then we’d lose possession.

The formation didn’t work last night, one up top just doesn’t suit the personnel we have. Go with two up top, and play it to feet. What’s wrong with a good old fashioned 4-4-2?

I’d also give Barham a chance, even if it’s off the bench. Or even Bettamer in that second striker role, even if it’s just to hold the ball up - he’s a big lad, and he’s already here!

I’d even like to see Vasillou get some game time - a tricky player, with a number of good assists in pre season.

Exactly my interpretation. I don't think anyone shouting 'Forwards' meant just hoof it, so it's certainly not a case of DC can't win. I don't think he intended us to pass it around nicely until it got back to Loach and hoof it. DC has a good style of play it just lacked any attacking movement and invention on the night.
I don't think Elito offered enough and wasn't going to take anyone on so Shaq should have come on earlier and moved Akinola out wide. Bizarre last years top scorer can't make the starting 11. Barham deserves a chance as well, always looked a quality player.
I haven't seen Bettamer play but if he can hold a ball up then maybe we need a winger more than a forward. Sparkes isn't the answer when Elito or EMC need to be rested. I hope the team recover enough for Saturday.
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Re: Dover Athletic (Hive) The Dover Excited Match Thread

Postby Roy57 » 16 Aug 2019, 18:13

If as quite a few have mentioned not just on this topic but others in this forum. It has been said mason clark. Elito. Sparks have not been good enough in games. Also mentioned and I agree Jack Taylor is good and has been had good moments in games so far but with his quality he needs to do a lot more. What is the point in bringing in a big striker. If he is not going to be getting the service from above players. The frustrating thing From my point it's seeing clubs who i believed we were bigger than. Bringing in players whom had been mentioned on this forum. And to see them doing well for there new clubs and scoring goals is what frustrates me. More than us not getting anyone in.
I feel as mentioned the cupboard is bare and the hope of bringing in a top class striker are and will be just a wish in the minds of us supporters. God i hope i am wrong and before Xmas the club does surprise us by bringing in a player of note. But I think this season will be down to DC bringing out the best in players most of us believe is in there but needs to be brought out and not just in glimpses. And I hope DC can use more systems with the players at his disposal when 4-2-3-1 doesn't or is not working.
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