Why having the structure in place is important

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MCB
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Joined: 11 May 2016, 17:41

Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 271973Post MCB »

I appreciate it's all very annoying to see us struggle in the Conference when we have all these amazing world class facilities: medical facilities that only Man Utd can beat, a top class gym, 3G pitches, proper grass pitches, and shortly indoor training facilities.

In fact it stinks, that every time we seem to have turned a corner, we seem to turn into a car crash team. Long term succession and planning has been something we've aspired to since Mark Robson, especially with Rossi Eames (failures which could be put down to lack of budget and injuries especially in Rossi's case). DC seems like a man we want to succeed and build for long term planning to grow the club.

All the anti-thesis of Martin Allen, who seems to the quick fix we keep turning to (note: we got relegated under Allen last season - and he complained as he was being 'encouraged' to blood youngsters.

Anyway I think last night perfectly encapsulates why we should carry on with our extensive youth programmes, and build a style through all the teams. No, not at Halifax, but what unfolded in Madrid.

Financially smashing above their weight. Consistency of staff, coaching, style, and bringing players through and selling them. Tying up relationships with other clubs / countries. No-one else does it in London. How about this for an end result?
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ninestein
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Joined: 03 Aug 2011, 20:00

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 271982Post ninestein »

Firstly, I think it's great that you have highlighted the Ajax result of last night. There is a club which has stuck to its principles for many years. They may not win the league every year, but when someone says "Ajax", you immediately think of a team who play the right way, produce their own talent, and yet still compete at the right end of the table.

However (and personally, I think this is a big problem for us), the academy systems in England are geared up to teach the kids how to play possession football and attack. At Premier League level, Championship level, and to a certain degree, League 1 level, this type of football fits in with the style of league they are competing. At league 2 and NL level, the type of football is a bit different. As much as the quality of football has improved in recent years at these levels, there is still a need for the rough side of the game. The sort of games we saw against Borehamwood, Sutton and by all accounts, at Solihull.

You still need to play direct at times. You need to be able to be strong at set pieces in both boxes. You get less time on the ball in this division. It's almost like the academies at our level would need to teach the players how to play a different style, until such time we find ourselves at a higher level. But half the battle with the younger sides is you want to look into the future and identify the types of player you will need in your first XI 5 years from now. We have been such a yo-yo club, where would we pitch our coaching? Towards the NL style, or be ambitious and go for L1 style?

I'm all for us having the academy running, but right now more than anything else, we could do we a couple of more older, wiser heads in the side. Our squad is too large. We should be working with around 18-20 senior pros, plus a sprinkling of 4-5 academy prospects who are seriously working with the first team in training. They should be youngsters who we really believe in, and whom we see as doing what Elliott, Mauro and Jack Taylor have done in recent years.

I feel at times with our setup like we are trying to run before we can walk. It's all very well showing ambition, but we also need to be realistic and accept where we are right now... the National League. We have no given right to go back up. It has to be earned.

Our priority for the next 6 months should be to:

1. See this season out & ensure safety
2. (preferably with point 1 already achieved with games in hand) Give DC the freedom to experiment and find ways of playing which will give the players a head start next season.
3. Trim the squad back to an acceptable level
4. Identify the spine of the side. Key players. GK, Central defenders, Central Midfielders and centre forward. Who is our captain? Do we need to look for a new one? If so, who is the number 1 target. Where is the replacement for Akinde? Where is the bite in midfield?
5. Be honest with our academy graduates. Are they really going to make the step up, or are they going to be out on loan all season at Wealdstone or Hemel? Unless they are ready to break into the first team and give us something tangible in the next season, make a decision for the good of their careers and our future at the same time. The likes of Nana, Shomotun, Darnell Smith, Joe Payne have been named in the matchday squads over the last 2 years but haven't done enough to hold down a place. Is it worth our while keeping them here?

I've always said that the notion of what was trying to do when he employed Robson was correct. We needed to break away from the old approach and develop our youth. However, we did it all in the wrong order. We employed a coach and he had to assemble a team from scratch. Whether it was Robson's fault or not, we didn't have enough experience in the squad from day 1. Too many youth players thrown in at the deep end. We needed to make the first XI competitive first, as people looking in will judge a club by its league division and position. The development of youth should have been an ongoing project in the background, which if done correctly will bear fruits as time progresses. Once again, we tried to run before we could walk...
Barnet showing all the flair of Rupert-the-Bears trousers, but lots more style!
DerekRocholl
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Joined: 02 Feb 2011, 16:59

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 271984Post DerekRocholl »

Having supporters who don't constantly knee jerk into slagging of their team and look for scapegoat players at the first sign of a set back would help too.

We have too many in our ranks who seem obsessed with making comments aimed at undermining and demoralising players, managers, coaches, and even the physios. In other lines of business they are called terrorist customers.
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MCB
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Joined: 11 May 2016, 17:41

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 271987Post MCB »

Hiveoccupier wrote:Having supporters who don't constantly knee jerk into slagging of their team and look for scapegoat players at the first sign of a set back would help too.

We have too many in our ranks who seem obsessed with making comments aimed at undermining and demoralising players, managers, coaches, and even the physios. In other lines of business they are called terrorist customers.
I don't know, i thought about this, and was chatting with a couple of other fans. I don't think we have a more toxic fanbase than other clubs. Even Blackpool fans celebrating getting their club back at Accrington yesterday with terrific help from the Accrington chairman still had time to chuck flares on the pitch and bottles of piss at the Accie keeper. Quite simply football still attracts morons, but I think we've a smaller % than others.

I think it's harder to sell this dream to younger supporters who are more used to instant gratification.
BFCFabs
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Joined: 17 Mar 2015, 20:26

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 271989Post BFCFabs »

Hiveoccupier wrote:Having supporters who don't constantly knee jerk into slagging of their team and look for scapegoat players at the first sign of a set back would help too.
With reference to the thread, how exactly?
This thread concerns the organisation of the club, not the attitudes of the fans.
Either way, a fanbase that gets angry after a minor setback means nothing if the club is organised well enough to bounce back and grow again.
DerekRocholl
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Joined: 02 Feb 2011, 16:59

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 272005Post DerekRocholl »

BFCFabs wrote:
Hiveoccupier wrote:Having supporters who don't constantly knee jerk into slagging of their team and look for scapegoat players at the first sign of a set back would help too.
With reference to the thread, how exactly?
This thread concerns the organisation of the club, not the attitudes of the fans.
Either way, a fanbase that gets angry after a minor setback means nothing if the club is organised well enough to bounce back and grow again.
We aren’t Ajax or Real Madrid we have a small fan base, a very visible section of which are unpleasantly impatient with a destructive effect that helps undermine stability and long term planning.

It is blatantly obvious from the way that the club’s owner responds to social media commentary all the way through to how individual club employees (including coaches and players)react,that the opinions given by supporters here and elsewhere affect the organisation and development of our club.

This isn’t new. Anyone who saw Ross Flitney respond to a well known supporter during a match over a decade ago saw it then, Rossi Eames’ dad shared a similar insight a year ago, and I’m sure KMBs mum and a few of our current squad might easily add to the narrative.
Last edited by DerekRocholl on 06 Mar 2019, 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
jlay72
Posts: 142
Joined: 02 May 2018, 13:36

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 272008Post jlay72 »

Hiveoccupier wrote:Having supporters who don't constantly knee jerk into slagging of their team and look for scapegoat players at the first sign of a set back would help too.

We have too many in our ranks who seem obsessed with making comments aimed at undermining and demoralising players, managers, coaches, and even the physios. In other lines of business they are called terrorist customers.
100% agree which was why I spoke up about the negativity once we went 1-0 down last night. I don’t see how that helps. What I find surprising is people at home games who have supported the team for x games just spouting negative comments at the players. How does that help?

I really hope this starts to change next season. I do think there is talent but this is a hard league for players who are young and inexperienced. What we need is 2-3 players with experience and a bit of mongrel in them who help the youngsters through the game. Especially when it gets tough like last night.

Great post.
footballman
Posts: 40
Joined: 01 Dec 2016, 23:04

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 272121Post footballman »

MCB wrote:I appreciate it's all very annoying to see us struggle in the Conference when we have all these amazing world class facilities: medical facilities that only Man Utd can beat, a top class gym, 3G pitches, proper grass pitches, and shortly indoor training facilities.

In fact it stinks, that every time we seem to have turned a corner, we seem to turn into a car crash team. Long term succession and planning has been something we've aspired to since Mark Robson, especially with Rossi Eames (failures which could be put down to lack of budget and injuries especially in Rossi's case). DC seems like a man we want to succeed and build for long term planning to grow the club.

All the anti-thesis of Martin Allen, who seems to the quick fix we keep turning to (note: we got relegated under Allen last season - and he complained as he was being 'encouraged' to blood youngsters.

Anyway I think last night perfectly encapsulates why we should carry on with our extensive youth programmes, and build a style through all the teams. No, not at Halifax, but what unfolded in Madrid.

Financially smashing above their weight. Consistency of staff, coaching, style, and bringing players through and selling them. Tying up relationships with other clubs / countries. No-one else does it in London. How about this for an end result?
This is very important indeed. In the same spirit as this, a football club that expects to be successful needs solid foundations and an Ethos/Philosophy at the core which can in time lead towards success. If such foundations in ethos are lacking, apparent temporary/transient success will be just that! Comes with the wind and gone again in a couple of weeks. At the core there must be a competitive, winner attitude/ethos permeating the club at all levels. Solid foundations also means that in order to achieve success at higher levels you first need to do this at the lower levels and build up. A club with a winner ethos does not surrender to the task/challenge it is faced with falsely thinking that allowing itself to lose at a lower level it will succeed at a higher level (this is flimsy foundations and an ethos of losing).
BFCFabs
Posts: 46
Joined: 17 Mar 2015, 20:26

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 272132Post BFCFabs »

Hiveoccupier wrote:
BFCFabs wrote:
Hiveoccupier wrote:Having supporters who don't constantly knee jerk into slagging of their team and look for scapegoat players at the first sign of a set back would help too.
With reference to the thread, how exactly?
This thread concerns the organisation of the club, not the attitudes of the fans.
Either way, a fanbase that gets angry after a minor setback means nothing if the club is organised well enough to bounce back and grow again.
We aren’t Ajax or Real Madrid we have a small fan base, a very visible section of which are unpleasantly impatient with a destructive effect that helps undermine stability and long term planning.

It is blatantly obvious from the way that the club’s owner responds to social media commentary all the way through to how individual club employees (including coaches and players)react,that the opinions given by supporters here and elsewhere affect the organisation and development of our club.
Still doesn' t explain exactly how the organisation of the club can be so detrimentally affected by a proportion of angry fans.
Responses to social media commentary are made in direct response to the opinions of fans being shared. That has nothing to with how TK then goes and runs the club. Many clubs have demanding fanbases. I would like to think the employees and owner of this club are not so mentally weak that the entire structure and organisation of it could be affected so heavily by this.
DerekRocholl
Posts: 4329
Joined: 02 Feb 2011, 16:59

Re: Why having the structure in place is important

Post: # 272133Post DerekRocholl »

Culture has a manifest effect on structure. The direction of this Club in terms of structure, policy, focus, marketing approach shifts at an incredible rate. The way the owner and employees of the club react to the mood of supporters is a major factor in all of this. Why else have we had such managerial and organisational turmoil for the past 20+ years.
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