The mess that is Barnet FC

[#Beebot]

Allen's summer signings of Akinde, Togwell, MacDonald and Cook brought experience and strength to the spine of our side.

A year later we were signing Lisbie, Batt, Tomlinson, Champion, Nelson and Stephens. At first glance, only the first 3 were flops. If we want to be very critical, you could argue that the other 3 didn't really improve on what we already had. Stephens for Stack, Nelson for Stephens, Champion for Togwell. We never really replaced MacDonald who started off working so well with Akinde. We certainly never replaced Luisma who could offer that little bit of brilliance every now and then to steal a few points throughout the season.

A year later andvwe signed Watson, Nicholls, Akpa Akpro. Once again, I really don't think that they improved on what we already had.

If we are to have a successful January window, we need to identify the weakest links in our starting XI and bring in quality to better those positions, not just fill the squad up with numbers. Improving our midfield will make or break us for thenext 5 months.

Bover was hail by some as the new Luisma, but what happened to him? Like many, I haven't seen much of him, but I get the impression he is a player who needs time to settle in English football. Time we don't have, particularly in our current strife.

People assumed that he'd be a classy playmaker because he's Spanish. He's not.

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[mcleod23]

Could I add aswell, yes allen's football league signings were poor, but had no money so had to rely on free transfers. Whereas Rossi probably had the most money to spend of any Barnet manager, 250k last January and around 150k spent in the summer?

[Norfolkbee]

Could I add aswell, yes allen's football league signings were poor, but had no money so had to rely on free transfers. Whereas Rossi probably had the most money to spend of any Barnet manager, 250k last January and around 150k spent in the summer?

Allen would've got that money, had he stuck around and not chased the big bucks. Reckon at least a couple of the signings were fixed up by him before he decamped. Coulson springs to mind.

[#Beebot]

Could I add aswell, yes allen's football league signings were poor, but had no money so had to rely on free transfers. Whereas Rossi probably had the most money to spend of any Barnet manager, 250k last January and around 150k spent in the summer?

Rossi never had full control over transfers during his time here.

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[barnetpete]

Could I add aswell, yes allen's football league signings were poor, but had no money so had to rely on free transfers. Whereas Rossi probably had the most money to spend of any Barnet manager, 250k last January and around 150k spent in the summer?

Allen would've got that money, had he stuck around and not chased the big bucks. Reckon at least a couple of the signings were fixed up by him before he decamped. Coulson springs to mind.

Would he though as that money we spent was, in a large part except Gambin, the money we got for losing Allen and the other Eastleigh transfers.

[Mem Beespod]

Could I add aswell, yes allen's football league signings were poor, but had no money so had to rely on free transfers. Whereas Rossi probably had the most money to spend of any Barnet manager, 250k last January and around 150k spent in the summer?

Allen would've got that money, had he stuck around and not chased the big bucks. Reckon at least a couple of the signings were fixed up by him before he decamped. Coulson springs to mind.

I heard that TK had lost faith with Allen's signings so probably wouldn't have let him have the money

[Norfolkbee]

Could I add aswell, yes allen's football league signings were poor, but had no money so had to rely on free transfers. Whereas Rossi probably had the most money to spend of any Barnet manager, 250k last January and around 150k spent in the summer?

Allen would've got that money, had he stuck around and not chased the big bucks. Reckon at least a couple of the signings were fixed up by him before he decamped. Coulson springs to mind.

I heard that TK had lost faith with Allen's signings so probably wouldn't have let him have the money

So all last January's signings were made by TK off his own bat? I always thought the signing of a couple of them had all the hallmarks of Fairclough.

[Norfolkbee]

Could I add aswell, yes allen's football league signings were poor, but had no money so had to rely on free transfers. Whereas Rossi probably had the most money to spend of any Barnet manager, 250k last January and around 150k spent in the summer?

Allen would've got that money, had he stuck around and not chased the big bucks. Reckon at least a couple of the signings were fixed up by him before he decamped. Coulson springs to mind.

I heard that TK had lost faith with Allen's signings so probably wouldn't have let him have the money

So all last January's signings were made by TK off his own bat? I always thought the signing of a couple of them had all the hallmarks of Fairclough.

[ninestein]

I'm not convinced MA would have been given the money to sign players like Santos, Coulson & Clough.
I also think Newman had a lot to do with the transfers which did come in, but between them they must have taken advice from someone externally on who to target.

[MCB]

I keep reading about PF being involved. Is this just because people like to blame PF, because they are young non-league players, or anything else?

I know we've never been officially told that PF has left the club, but it's many years since I saw him at The Hive.

[Mem Beespod]

TK had a q&a and he referred to some sort of panel that made those choices in January however he chose not to elaborate on who was part of it. Personally I think he had an agent or two in his ear. One thing I do know was that Henry and Rossi distanced themselves almost immediately from Sweeney which suggests they weren't part of that decision.

[Norfolkbee]

I keep reading about PF being involved. Is this just because people like to blame PF, because they are young non-league players, or anything else?

I know we've never been officially told that PF has left the club, but it's many years since I saw him at The Hive.

Just because he's not sitting in an office at The Hive doesn't mean PF doesn't talk to TK. They've always seemed to have a decent relationship going back a few years. Remember how PF was brought in at the drop of a hat when MA did his initial moonlight flit days before the 2004 play-off semi-final. Sweeney is the one I really think may have been a PF recommendation. I doubt he was on MA's radar or anyone else at the club for that matter. Coulson may have arrived via the same route, but he more than likely came via the negotiations involving Bondz, which ended with the Eastleigh supremo saying: "You don't wanna work at a dead end club like Barnet, Martin, you're far too good for that. Come and work here for a big fat pay cheque and a massive transfer budget to play with." Ego suitably massaged, off he trotted, at least for a few weeks.

[Itai-bee]

I keep reading about PF being involved. Is this just because people like to blame PF, because they are young non-league players, or anything else?

I know we've never been officially told that PF has left the club, but it's many years since I saw him at The Hive.

The Maidstone manager was quoted at the time. That Fairclough was heavily involved in the Sweeney signing.
Also, we signed Akinola from Braintree.After Fairclough picked him for the England C squad. Maybe just a coincidence.

[lemming3k]

Two year deals just need to be offered selectively. To players who we know can perform at this level, two year deals. Those with question marks get one year deals.

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Well I'm trying to be objective here, but the management are hardly handing 2 year deals to crap players on purpose. It's easy when we can look back now on how they've performed, but so many of our signings look reasonable (most quite good) on the surface. No matter who the manager is, we've always had our fair share of flops, and the incoming managers suffer for it.
On the other hand, I don't remember anyone believing Akinde would turn out as amazing as he has, and we absolutely got that right offering him a longer deal.
I do believe a 1 year plus option is better, but this isn't a new thought and it isn't new to Rossi being in charge or even Allen. Perhaps offering 1 year plus option affects our ability to convince players to sign? Is the uncertainty increasing their demands?

Allen's summer signings of Akinde, Togwell, MacDonald and Cook brought experience and strength to the spine of our side.

A year later we were signing Lisbie, Batt, Tomlinson, Champion, Nelson and Stephens. At first glance, only the first 3 were flops. If we want to be very critical, you could argue that the other 3 didn't really improve on what we already had. Stephens for Stack, Nelson for Stephens, Champion for Togwell. We never really replaced MacDonald who started off working so well with Akinde. We certainly never replaced Luisma who could offer that little bit of brilliance every now and then to steal a few points throughout the season.

A year later andvwe signed Watson, Nicholls, Akpa Akpro. Once again, I really don't think that they improved on what we already had.

If we are to have a successful January window, we need to identify the weakest links in our starting XI and bring in quality to better those positions, not just fill the squad up with numbers. Improving our midfield will make or break us for thenext 5 months.

I agree we haven't improved the squad enough, but then this is somewhat based on opinion as inevitably discussions about players are; and again objectively speaking we are looking at a lot of these signings with hindsight - were they honestly massively exciting signings at the time? Which of the ones that were expected to be exciting actually disappointed? IMO Cook and Macdonald were good but faded as the season went on, I seem to recall age and injuries catching up with them - are we seeing the same with JCR? Some people seem to think he's rubbish, but did anyone complain at the time he joined? He's had more than his share of good games I think.
Nelson has been quality and lasted a lot longer but is now showing early signs that he will need replacing.
Togs was never great technically but worked hard - yet I seem to recall plenty of people saying he wasn't good enough.
Was Akinde that experienced at the time? Before his good year at Alfreton he wasn't prolific at all either. Wasn't he also a replacement for Hyde who's goals per game wasn't too dissimilar to Akinde that year?
What of Bondz? Mekki? Gash? Cowler? Muggles? Anyone there that made us believe we'd win the league? I personally thought Bondz was good at that level, but in the end we were lucky to get good money for him.
Luisma was often criticised for being lightweight, or playing poorly but that was largely as a left winger. When used effectively he was a joy to watch. Bover had a lot to live up to but neither of them are wide left players (which is where they both seem to predominantly show on the team sheet). Bover came with excitement and high recommendation from anyone who knew MLS but gets slated constantly.
Did anyone think Lisbie would be a flop? Tomlinson and Batt were more risky, but Batt for certain was experienced. Didn't everyone think Champion was an improvement on Togs at the time? Looking back Stephens was a great signing but I'm not sure we were convinced at the time.
Dembele? Hoyte? Mclean? Bailey? Sesay? Pearson? I seem to think Hoyte was the most well received at the time, but Dembele and Pearson were the best of that lot.
At some point Weston was given a new deal despite a lot of people thinking he wasn't good enough.
Watson, Nicholls, Akpa Akpro - personally think all have shown flashes of talent but rarely get a run in the team.

As I say, easy to look back, but I was most excited by who we signed in January - whoever you want to give the credit to on that I felt there was some great quality coming in and we'd make a real playoff challenge, as I'm sure a lot of people thought.
Now people are saying we have the worst team ever.
Akinola, Santos, Tutonda. Bover excited everyone, as did Coulson. Clough looked a route 1 centre half. Even Sweeney came with some optimism. Were any of these really thought of so badly at the time?
Most of that was also funded by departures of Bondz, Togs, and Gambin. Some people seem to think we may have made money.

This year we've been unlucky with Tarpey but he was a great capture. Not spent anything else though and Coulthirst has been good, Ross covered well, and by all accounts Brindley is meant to be good but again, unlucky not to see him yet.
Blackman on the other hand hasn't impressed. Overall some would argue this year has been our most successful with transfers.
We haven't even mentioned youth players at this point either.

Bover was hail by some as the new Luisma, but what happened to him? Like many, I haven't seen much of him, but I get the impression he is a player who needs time to settle in English football. Time we don't have, particularly in our current strife.

Apart from the expectation Bover would match Luisma, I think he suffers from the same problems, being out of favour half the time as he doesn't fit the 'style', and played out of position the rest. The fans then get on his back if he doesn't play like Messi every game. I seem to recall early on he put some beautiful passes in to Akinde, then found his spot on the bench under Nugent. Playing in a poorly playing team won't help him, but even Rossi didn't play to his strengths, and certainly won't build around him so we might as well get shot - then again we blame someone new every week. Can't see why we don't play him behind Akinde-Coulthirst.

Overall on paper I think there's a top 7 side there when everyone is fit, with some good youth players to supplement it, but we are massively underperforming, and suffered massive injuries.
The "mess" that we are has more than enough parts to get us out of this, if only we could sum them up into something decent.

[becbee]

The impression I had when we signed Bover was that he was simply a gamble, someone who wanted to have a go in England, who probably wasn't costing us much and if he ended up being a good player, that that would be a bonus. I can't see why anybody would have expected him to be the next Luisma simply because of their shared nationality.

Also, I thought Bover posted on Twitter / Facebook that he'd been injured but was now on the mend. Or did I dream that?